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Forum:Categories
Characters with Magical Powers I debate the necessity for this Cat. I debate how many characters *have* and or *express* magic powers. Ron, sure, and Sensei. *Not Fiske: Despite being "touched" of MMP, he has not expressed anything like Ron has, even as mild as Exchange; not even shaping the Lotus Blade. *Ninjas: not enough articles about them, and I debate if the brief glimpses of jitsus warrants the term. **Yori never expressed a power **Hirotaka never expressed a power *Ghost of Blackeye Brown: Being a ghost is a condition, not a "power". While KP touches on magic, it is generally artifacts. Shame as Nanny Maim would have been perfect to have been a witch using witchcraft to babify the townspeople rather than a machine –which had to have been bought, despite her claims otherwise, I just can't buy an old biddy inventing it, but that's a diff discussion. If there is a need for a similar Cat, I propose "MMP", which can then be applied to People, Places (Yamanouchi), and Things instead of only people. Or "Mystical" if some MMP is still debated. Love Robin (talk) 03:29, June 10, 2013 (UTC) :Agree with pretty much everything you said, LR. Although I don't really think there is a need for a second MMP-related category. But on the subject of proposed categories: :*Locations could be further broken down into Schools, Homes, Businesses, Lairs, etc. :*Paraphernalia includes a lot of inventions, but they are not really classified in any way at the moment. I think the simplest way is to break them down by creator (Drakken, Henchco, Dementor). But there are some with unknown creators. So it might be best to wait until we have more articles to get a better idea of how to group them. - Dap00 21:53, June 10, 2013 (UTC) I can see Cats for: *Inventions (sub of Paraphernalia) *Artifacts (ditto) *Clothing *Vehicles *Weapons Which can be applied All-as-applies Do we already have an MMP or Mystical Cat? I know we have an *article* for MMP. At any rate, I'd recommend "Mystical" as it would by definition include MMP without the need for everything so labeled to *be* MMP. Love Robin (talk) 23:02, June 10, 2013 (UTC) :We have "Mystical Monkey Artifacts" under Paraphernalia. - Dap00 05:08, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :::Then I recommend we delete that and make Cat:Mystical, and under Cat:Para add Cat:Artifacts. That way we can tag articles with either and/or and cover all bases, an.d won't have to debate if something is "monkey/MMP" or not. :::Love Robin (talk) 06:24, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :I agree. The MMP should be changed to simply mystical. I will point out that we already have a subcategory of vehicles under paraphernalia. I also question if we really need an invention subcategory. What exactly goes into this? Isn't everything man made essentially an invention? If you are referring to the typical scientific McGuffin for the episode then I would suggest a better name for the category. Although, I do question the necessity of such a subcategory since in generally these McGuffins share little in common other than that they are based on questionable real-science and served to drive the plot of an episode. :Mknopp (talk) 15:13, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :::To *ME*, and invention is a prototype, or at least something not sold to the Average Citizen. These can be one-offs such as to Roflax, or Specialties such as the Power Staves used by Drakken's henches. While Dr Possible's Car *is* techically and "invention of man", it is no-longer remarkable as the Model-T used to be in its earliest days of production. :::That's how I distinguish the term "Invention" for our context. :::Love Robin (talk) 17:10, June 11, 2013 (UTC) ::::My point was that probably 90% of the things in Paraphernalia are technological/scientific inventions, and most are not classified as anything but paraphernalia. Meanwhile we have subcategories for far less numbered paraphernalia, such as "Food and drink". ::::And I would argue that these McGuffins have a great deal more importance in the scope of the show than anything that is eaten in it. Plus, there are going to be lots of these articles before we're done. There are certainly going to be more articles for technology than there are going to be articles grouped under Mystical, if nothing else. You see practically two brand new inventions in every other episode. Honestly, I'm surprised I would even have to explain the need for such a subcategory. Drakken's creations alone could probably outnumber the articles in the Mystical category. Which is partially why I suggested they be grouped by the inventor. - Dap00 17:27, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :First, I would strongly suggest that we precede with extreme caution when "our" definition is different than one that is in basically any dictionary. How is a visitor supposed to know what "our" definition of a category is? They won't, they will use their definition, and that can lead to confusion. And in my opinion, it is better to not have any category than to have one that is confusing. :Which segues into my follow up. What is a commonly known category name that encompasses all of these scientific McGuffins? If there isn't one then I am in favor of not having any category just for the purpose of trying to shoehorn things into a category. "Food and Drink" wasn't chosen as a category because it is important to the show, but because it is a commonly known category for which items are clearly part of or not part of. :In many ways this is a rehash of the discussion that I had a while back concerning the sub-categories for characters. Categories need to be used very carefully, and great care needs to be taken when considering a catefory as to whether it truly helps the user in navigation and search. If it doesn't then I am not in favor of having it. :Right off I can tell you that I do not like the idea of categorizing McGuffins by inventor. Primarily because it is too often unclear of confusing. For instance, take the multiple time appearing Pan Dimensional Vortex Inducer. Who invented it? We don't know. We know who used it, but not who invented it. The same goes for several of the items that Drakken used. A large portion of them were not his inventions, but were items which others invented and he stole and then used. So, as a user coming to the site, does it actually help me to have a category for Drakken's inventions when it is unclear or possibly confusing as to whether he truly invented it or just used it? :I concede that it is likely that a very large portion of articles under paraphernalia will be scientific McGuffins, but honestly, to me that just means that having a subcategory is less necessary. :For example, I have never used the Male or Female categories for a search, because they contain so many articles within them that it is just as easy for me to search within the character category for the character that I want. That being said, I will often use the MHS Cheerleader category to quickly cut down the options that I have to scan to find who I want. :To me, each single category should serve a clear benefit in navigation aid. If it doesn't then we shouldn't have it, and a category for the scientific McGuffin of the day just doesn't offer any clear benefit to the user. It just seems like categorization for categorization's sake. :Thoughts? :Mknopp (talk) 18:41, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :::Personally I feel you're over-thinnking this. People will recognize that "Invention" does not include cars, TVs or Toasters (other than the Talking one enhanced by Freeman). :::Love Robin (talk) 21:12, June 11, 2013 (UTC) Okay, I give up. But as far as "Mystical" goes: *Would it not be easier to rename "Mystical monkey artifacts" to "Artifacts"? Everything there is by definition a mystical artifact, and it is already under Paraphernalia. The overview would need a tweak, but other than that, MMA and Artifacts would be identical as far as I can tell. *In terms of people/avatars, can we agree that anyone named in a mystical prophecy is considered to be mystical? I'm asking mostly for the sake of Hana. I don't think she displays anything that is concretely mystical, but for her to be called the Monkey Mystic Weapon and connected to Yono, the implication is there, even if the flashy powers are not. - Dap00 22:47, June 11, 2013 (UTC) I had forgotten Hana and The Yono, but yes, they are examples of where "Mystical" applies. While "Characters with Magic Powers" definitely applies to The Yono, "Mystical" is a more comprehensive Cat to tagged them both with. Personally I'm not one for too many sub-cats. I'm more for tagging a subject with all the Cats which apply without trying to build a comprehensive Category Tree. Thus "Artifact" for things regardless of if they are mystical or not, and "Mystical" for things regardless of being artifacts or not, and then anything with is both gets tagged with both. Love Robin (talk) 23:45, June 11, 2013 (UTC) Doing a write-up for the encrypted scroll and shrine keys from Big Bother, but stuck on the article name. I think the easiest thing would be to describe them all under the heading "Encrypted scroll set", rather than seperate articles for "Encrypted scroll" and "Shrine keys". My only real justification is that they were made to work together, but technically they are separate artifacts. Ideas? - Dap00 16:20, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :I would suggest writing them up together. :Mknopp (talk) 17:24, June 13, 2013 (UTC) Team Go Villains Do we really need a Cat which only three individuals apply? I feel since they appear in context of Kim and Co, there is no need for a sub-cat. Love Robin (talk) 05:24, July 24, 2013 (UTC) :I am not in favor of the Team Go Villain category, but I am stingy with categories. :Mknopp (talk) 18:01, July 24, 2013 (UTC) Middleton I'd like to propose a Category for Middleton. There are a decent number of People, Places, and Things which are specific to Middleton which I feel deserve their own Cat. --Love Robin (talk) 12:06, August 18, 2013 (UTC) ::That makes sense for places, but which people or things are you thinking of? ::Mknopp (talk) 15:44, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :::Kim, Ron, MHS students and faculty, employees of the MSC, etc. Things would include the S.K.I.P. program, Robot Rumble, possibly the Naco for where it was invented, etc., and that's just off the toppa m'haed. I'm sure more will pop up. :::Love Robin (talk) 16:26, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :Is that going to make the category so broad as to be useless? You are talking about placing the majority of articles into the Middleton category. With that many articles in it, what good is it really going to do for the end user in helping them find articles? What you seem to be talking about seems like it would be better done in the Middleton article with links. :At least that is my thoughts on it. :Mknopp (talk) 19:03, August 19, 2013 (UTC)